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Microsoft word - journal of excellence issue no 9.doc


Making the Impossible, Possible, Within a Relationship:
An Interview with Lisa and Mike

Terry Orlick, Canada
Lisa and Mike dedicated their life's efforts towards the pursuit of excellence. Lisa trained at
very high levels in gymnastics (state champion as a child), dance (professional ballet, jazz),
and acting. Mike’s educational efforts had been aligned with studying and living a life of
personal excellence, as well as developing programs to share this vision with others. Both
sought excellence, whether it was through physical training, education or personal growth.
This story is about THEIR RELATIONSHIP and how they brought it back to life.
Email for Lisa and Mike: amoxie@hotmail.com
Email for Terry Orlick: excel@zoneofexcellence.com
Abstract
I am very interested in the process of how people face something that seems totally
impossible, and change it into something that becomes possible. How do you go from
believing that something is not going to work, that it won’t be successful, that it is finished or
you are finished, to living the very thing that you thought was impossible?
In the following interview, we explore this process within a relationship. Lisa and Mike, a
bright and energetic couple from Southern California had been married for 8 years. Their
marriage was on the verge of total collapse. Somehow they were able to turn that relationship
around, to make the impossible, possible. How they managed to do this is the focus of this
interview.

Interview Transcript

cally just sat there and thought I just don’t have the strength to continue, I’m just done. Is it true that you both thought that your re- lationship was finished, and that there was What do you think were the pieces that ulti- mately helped your relationship come back I did, I was just done, I was done! So we I think one of the pieces was that we were mitment to go to counseling because I felt I both open to it, Ok let’s just see what hap- owed it to me and I owed it to Mike, to see pens. I think the second piece was our coun- if we could get it back. I didn’t know, and I selor because she was very good at letting us didn’t go in with any expectations. I basi- say and stay in the moment, like don’t worry about what’s going to happen tomorrow or  2004 Zone of Excellence - http://www.zoneofexcellence.com next week, but just try to be as comfortable the house and I’m having a hard time out as possible with the unknown. So there was here. I said I don’t want to put any pressure no pressure on us, this doesn’t have to be on you to make a decision but at the same done at this time or by that time, so that was time I was kind of pressuring her because she was witnessing how much difficulty I was having. It was my struggle and my One night we had gone out with our friends challenge to not pressure her and not pres- and that was like the twilight zone for me. I sure myself, and to let go of all the things I had a woman who I didn’t even know come wasn’t able to control, which was the most up to me and say that she was divorced and challenging thing I have ever done. To really so happy to be divorced, and that the guys in LA are horrible. I had a high power agent tell me that I sucked (as an actor) and I was Two things I really recognized and Lisa will never going to make it. It was just a flood of say Yah. Lisa, how many times do you think information that I took in and thought it out. I said, Lisa, I’m not mad at you. I really re- spect the courage that you have. I must have ing things out, things just started to become said that a million times, because I was in awe of her courage to really take a look at and be responsible for her happiness. As she It was a slow process, nothing had to be often said, ‘you know the safest thing would done right at that moment, which I think al- be to stay in this relationship. You’re well liked by people, you’re a young profes- sional, people will think I am crazy for questioning this’. And I didn’t see that. The So you didn’t feel pressured at that time? which also gave me the courage to ask what I think the pressure I felt was coming from me, like I felt I had to make a decision but Who was initially asking the questions about there was no pressure from anyone else, and happiness, and who you really are? Lisa, do Something that Lisa would often say, was I feel so guilty for this, so guilt was a big Yah. It’s going to sound so strange but it factor because there was not a specific inci- pretty much started in an acting class by a dent that caused this in our lives, like one of simple exercise, a repeat exercise. I have us screwing up by infidelity. It was more always kind of lived a guarded life, like not taking a look at the hard questions. Am I real open with people, and this exercise happy and can I be happy in this relation- forces you to break down those walls and ship? Can I be who I want to be in this rela- communicate from within, what’s coming tionship, was something that Lisa started from within you. From that point on, it was, with. And there was pressure from my per- ok what do I want, what am I doing, where spective because there were times when we would talk and I was saying, I moved out of  2004 Zone of Excellence - http://www.zoneofexcellence.com I’ve been with Mike since I was 15, so I know nothing else, and the holidays came It could be an inflection. If someone says, and I was feeling really stifled, like deci- You look mad, I look mad, Yah you don’t sions were being made for me, maybe they agree, No I don’t agree, You sound annoyed, weren’t but that was how I was feeling. So I No I’m not annoyed, You’re not annoyed, was making decisions based on what people No I’m not annoyed. It comes from the Mis- expected me to do. So nothing I did was for me. It was like Mike will be mad if I do this or my parents will be upset if I do that. So I was just unhappy because I felt like I wasn’t It brings in the need to be totally focused, living my life and I wasn’t contributing totally centered, totally here, and then totally anything because I was like a puppet for Can you tell me a little more about that act- What did you get from the repeat exercise or ing exercise you were doing that brought out where did the repeat exercises take you? The first couple of times I had gone up to do It’s called a repeat exercise and basically that exercise, it was just a very superficial what you are doing is reading peoples inten- thing. I would just repeat and I wasn’t really tions. Like I say, Your eyes are green, and looking at the person or really understanding you say My eyes are green, Yah your eyes what I was feeling, so my teacher stopped are green, You agree, Yah I agree. You’re me and said, well sometimes we just have smiling, Yah I’m smiling, You’re happy, walls, and she kind of fluffed it off, like you’re someone who has walls and you’re just going to have to break them down. And Like you just have to strip yourself down at that moment it was like, well I don’t want to have walls, I just don’t know how else to emotions. And the other person has to see be. It was at that moment that it all just who you are and it could be by picking up broke down and I started crying, and she asked for another partner to come up, and that’s when I was able to kind of let go, and that partner said to me, You look sad, Yah Would they be trying to read emotions about I’m sad, Yah I can see you’re sad, Yah I’m how you might be feeling, like happy or sad sad, and it just went on and it was just my For the first 3 weeks of the class that’s all Yes exactly, and the other person repeats. we did, because it just breaks you down and gets you in touch with you. Then you are able to take a nursery rhyme and create this whole story you want to create, by emotions  2004 Zone of Excellence - http://www.zoneofexcellence.com I thought was incredible. And the courage to say, hey I don’t know if this is what I want (this relationship) and to tell me that. Yah, and then it continued for the whole 4 In the context of our life, one of the prob- months (of the class). Acting is all about re- lems was that she felt insignificant in the acting, but you have to know yourself and relationship because I was taking more of your feelings in order to emote what you are the light. So she stood out from the light. wanting to. And I was so closed off, I don’t That was scary, it was new and she said, I know what from, that I was just like a par- think I want to walk out to the other lighted rot, just talking words instead of feeling Part of what I thought was important was bearing witness and being part of Lisa’s Therein is the courage again. I have heard this story many times and I am constantly spiritual process that allowed me to be open. reminded of the courage it took to do that. I don’t know if I believe in soul mates but She did this in front of a group of 15 people, we are both very spiritual and we want to be and that courage was inspiring, and was one good people, and I trust that in the deepest of my anchors in this process (we were go- part of my heart that Lisa wants to be a good ing through). This was also the scariest part person and so do I. And the right thing to do of it because I trusted that Lisa would be is to accept each other. So there is a very able to say, no I don’t want this (relation- ship) which was the scariest part and the needed time apart. But not going out party- ing and being wild but we needed time apart to do our own work for ourselves and come back together. That was scary. We had been I think it was realizing that I don’t know if I best friends for 15 years, married for 8 and have ever had the courage to do something in a monogamous relationship for those 8 like that. I was sure that there must have person but this was so profound to me and She called and said, I know we still have a so rich in meaning and so painful an experi- week to go but maybe we could go to church ence for her. So I am watching this and I am together (for Easter mass) because that had going, oh my god, I am in this as well. So been a part of our life together, so we went seeing that courage, just being around it. I and Lisa cried the entire time. I was so can’t quite describe it other than being in choked up by it. I can’t remember much of awe. It was her ability to express her feel- It was so hard after that to leave each other I don’t think we express feelings too much. because we had another week apart that we That she did it in front of a group of people, wanted to honor. And we both needed that  2004 Zone of Excellence - http://www.zoneofexcellence.com space and wanted that space but it was so incredibly hard, and that for me was when the flood gates were really open, and I was Then there was another time when we went Yah, I knew that and it freaked me out. That to a new church (about 3 months later) when things felt good. Something lifted from us. I felt it. There was something that happened I liked my time by myself. I would just get up for work and go to the gym, and I would Yah I definitely felt that. But for me it goes and with what I wanted to do and where I much deeper that that because the reason why I was so upset in April at church mass (Easter) was because I didn’t know what I was doing. Mike is my best friend and how To add context, Lisa was living at home, she can I be doing this. I don’t know if I want him, I don’t know if I want to be married, Did you have enough personal space there? For so long I felt like … my family thought, Oh Lisa is a success because she married well. You know, Mike’s so smart and he’s I had a lot of space. I didn’t have to do any- good looking, and this and that and the other thing that had to do with him (Mike). So it thing. I was just Mike’s wife. Yah, I was tal- was nice, it was a relief. That’s why I said ented in certain things, but Gosh Mike’s is so great, take care of him. I wanted to be the more time than this because this felt like a Lisa who could stand on her own feet, and to Going through that phase of not wanting to So you were feeling pretty good in terms of be married, I was feeling this (marriage) freedom and getting re-energized and doing sucks. I’ve lost my independence; I can’t do whatever I want. It was just too difficult. I just couldn’t, I was just lost. I just didn’t know who I was or where I stood or how I wanted to dress in the morning, because I always felt I had to be at a certain expecta- What inspired you to call Mike that 3rd week Once you decided to be apart for that first We’ve done Easter together since I’ve been going to church so I was thinking, what’s going to happen this year? I just called him  2004 Zone of Excellence - http://www.zoneofexcellence.com and said, are we going to church together. He said I don’t know, are we? And I said, I was fine. Obviously I was going through yah, I think that would be good. It can’t hurt. whatever we were going through but I just thought, I am going to see him Sunday and pened (the crying) and that was a tough day see how it goes. Just take it day by day. cause things were so up in the air and we I think the reason I felt so relieved moving were so unsure. We didn’t know what was tween us, and I didn’t want to have to go home and deal with what was going on with Can I jump in? She called me on Thursday with me, that I can’t give you anything be- and Easter mass was on Sunday. I remember cause I am not happy. So I really enjoyed that phone call. I really wanted to go to church and I really wanted her to go for the right reasons. I remember acting purpose- fully. I just wanted to make sure she was not going out of guilt or any pressure that was each other, and that was a tragic event for happening, but it really was for the right rea- we’re away from each other but let’s do counseling. We scheduled a counseling ap- Those next couple of days (of waiting) were just a complete blur. Up and down and up living with each other. I remember going to and down. Anticipation and hope, and back that first counseling meeting after we hadn’t down to what the hell is going on here. I had been around each other for a about a week, no idea and I was just trying to be myself as thinking, this hasn’t been enough time apart but I wanted to see what it was about (the Mike, were you feeling a bit out of control? I said I need more time, this is like a vaca- life for sure was that Lisa and I were great When we first went to see our counselor, I thought there was just no way it was going other. That was part of my identity. At some to work, because I’m done. There is just no point in our relationship, our identities way that this woman is going to be able to fused. In hindsight this (period of reflection that we have been going through) has been the best thing that has ever happened to us, The first couple of times we went to coun- seling, we just kind of looked at each other. We’d go into counseling and Lisa would be Lisa, what was happening with you during screamed at in front of anyone. I was feel- ing, this is so bad. We were engaging back and forth, and I’m hurt and I’m scared and  2004 Zone of Excellence - http://www.zoneofexcellence.com I’m angry and the whole thing, and I’m not in and out of some anger. I can remember yelling, and Lisa’s yelling and I’m frus- one vivid time when I was talking to a dear trated. I put my hands in my head and I said, friend of ours about it and I was pacing in my god, this is really bad, and it’s really hit- my office, I was very upset but that was very ting me, this is really bad. And the counselor minor. People expected me to be very angry said, this is really bad, and Lisa said, you’re about this. I did get angry, I just didn’t stay damn right this is really bad. And it was bad, that way for very long. I was hurt and scared and identified those clearly. I never really stayed angry at Lisa and we talked about that quite a bit through the process. I think it Our counselor was so good because in all was really important that I understood what this turmoil and all this craziness, she kept was behind it, if there were to be anger, saying, ‘It’s ok, there is no time line, there’s there was something deeper than that which no pressure, you feel this way, great. She made Mike understand that it’s ok to be left in the unknown. Just take it day by day, which was really nice because I then didn’t During these trying times were you thinking have that added pressure that I have to do it’s not going to work, or were you still Yah I think that was really important, that It was not good. My line was, if this was an out left and right. But I knew when I said that, that I’m still keeping 5% of my money Yah she helped a lot with that. Just take it in, and so for me it was never 100%, I’m day by day. You don’t want to be together, done. It was, this is really bad, I don’t think you don’t have to be together. You’re fine. it is going to work. I really don’t think this is You’re where you are. If you’re not happy going to work and I need to cut my losses. where you’re living, move somewhere else, And I didn’t cut my losses, I tried to move through this in the most open way I could. But I did not think it was going to work. Lisa, did you know that I thought it was not And we had to agree to that though. People can make the suggestion but we had to work No. I don’t know if I thought about that. You kept saying to me over and over again, And it was more you, I think. Because it was ‘you’re going to have to do this, I’m not me saying, I need time. And it had to come going to make it easy for you and say I walk from Mike for him to say, ok well I’ll give away because you’re going to have to walk Yah, and during this process a lot of people Right, because I think something easy was expected me to be very angry and I had gone like, all right you’re going to give me this  2004 Zone of Excellence - http://www.zoneofexcellence.com shit, well piss off. I don’t have to take this. And that’s what Lisa is saying now, I was We were still separated. And I go and see a not going to make it easy because I was go- psychiatrist. I was just really anxious and ing to be as genuine with my process and depressed, and my thoughts were just get- During this whole process I had spent a full month without sleeping, maybe an hour or And we’ve grown up together, so its not just two hours, but I was not sleeping, so I was Mike, it’s Mike’s whole family. I’ve always just, crazy.I would just wake up and then said through this whole thing, it had nothing I’m awake, thinking about what am I doing, to do with Mike. I didn’t want to change Mike. It wasn’t like, oh you’re horrible, it going to think, what is Mike going to think ? had nothing to do with him. It just had to do with if I could be the person that I wanted to psychiatrist so I could sleep, please give me be in this relationship. So I think it just boils medication (Zoloft) the end of May. I was just, I can’t take this, it’s just too much. And then during that time I said, let’s just date, and let’s just see how it goes, and we don’t have to think about the other pressures. Then I got on medication and it seems to have Both, my respect for him, and this relation- really helped and balanced me back out and And that is going to help you be what you How long did it take to start to feel some- Probably a month, maybe a little longer. Absolutely. I never put it that way but I’ve And when it’s time to put up or shut up, it was like, I really have respect for what you are doing here, I’m really scared, but I re- grounded, and I think it just allowed me to spect this. I think that was huge, that we did sleeping, and I wasn’t feeling so anxious, and I was feeling more confident in myself and just being ok with, well if it doesn’t Lisa, during these emotional exchanges were work, I will go on and I’m ok. Let’s just see you living on your own or back living to- maybe it won’t. I was just more comfortable in myself. I was ok either way. If I left, I  2004 Zone of Excellence - http://www.zoneofexcellence.com was going to be fine, and if I stayed, I was still working through that but let’s just see was it just that you were feeling better about That shift from you feeling, it’s finished, there’s no chance, I’m out of here, to maybe there’s a little opening, maybe a chance, weren’t living together. He was in a new maybe let’s date, and feeling ok with your- scene. We weren’t dealing with the day to day pressures, so we were just having fun. No I really don’t. I did it because we have been friends for so long and I owed it to Mike, and I owed to myself to see if I could. We had been together 15 years and we have Yah, we would go to dinner, go to dinner a lot of ties woven in, family, you know, with friends, and we pretty much spent the we’re Mike and Lisa and everyone thinks whole summer together, it was like lala land. we’re just perfect. So I thought I really need to see for myself if this is really over. time and laughing and not worrying about relationship stuff and school and whatever, What I think really helped was having no our responsibilities. We were just having fun and laughing and enjoying each other. And I think that the more time we spent together really wanted. I mean bottom line is Mike’s a great guy. He’s intelligent, he’s amazing, so there is no reason for me to leave because were still dealing with everything, but it was he is so amazing but I had to see that for like a process of, you know I want to be myself. I had to feel like I want to stay here because of me. Like I WANT to be here, not And I think our whole process in counseling too. Mike was open to seeing the flaws that were really getting to me. And little by little I know that some of these questions are dif- he started to understand me more with cer- ficult and maybe you can’t answer them but I am asking you to just give me what you can. You went through periods of wanting to be together initially, to losing yourself and thinking I can’t handle this, to thinking we are great friends, I owe it to him to at least see how I am feeling, to actually wanting to Umm, Like you’re, like I’m one way but be back together. What do you think influ- (pause) I can give you an example. I felt like enced that last step – ‘Now I want to be here if I wanted a hamburger I couldn’t have a in this relationship’? Was there anything in hamburger because Mike’s like, ‘You’re particular or something you were thinking eating a hamburger’! And it may not have been done in a condescending way but it felt  2004 Zone of Excellence - http://www.zoneofexcellence.com like a condescending way. And so our coun- like this and so I would say “you’re eating a selor helped him understand how that could hamburger”, that’s kind of like you are say- be taken in a condescending way. So then he wasn’t doing things like that as much, he You can’t do both, eat that way and want to was aware of it. Because that had happened all the way growing up. I did a dance show and it was a kind of a stripping number but obviously I had clothes on. He flipped out. ‘I And it just got to be too much, and my re- don’t want to be with you, this is too much, I don’t want to be with a girl’ (who does that). Ok, well I won’t do that anymore. It didn’t come from that I didn’t want to do it. It And really I shouldn’t have. That was not couldn’t do it. And then it came to I don’t want you dressing that way. And then I was wearing long sweaters and his best friend came up to me and said, you are putting on those areas, are you saying he was adapting, weight Mike is going to leave you. Ok, so I’ve got to lose weight. It’s like I became something and not just talking about it? what he wanted me to be. I didn’t become Lisa. Because that’s where I wanted to go. It’s very hard for me to hear that because while I was doing those things, I did do those things, I never realized it, and it was Prior to going through this whole process we out of a scared place for me and at the same are sharing, we would talk as if our relation- time there was some naivety there. We were ship was good. There was some tension right both in high school and then I also did in up to the event where she said I need to be college too. So it’s really hard for me to hear by myself, but we would talk like oh, that poor couple over there, I’m glad we’re not sounds really sick. Thank God I am doing having to deal with that. Like totally blind to It goes back to my dancing days. We’d be weighed and we had to be a certain weight so I have always had an issue with food. Lisa was a state champion in gymnastics, she was a professional dancer, both had had Right. And so it got to the point where I body image things and boy was I insensitive couldn’t even stand to hear him talk, or eat, with those things. And as an actor she would always say, I want to be thin, I want to look  2004 Zone of Excellence - http://www.zoneofexcellence.com She would tell me, please stop breathing It was just kind of like, as time went on we apart. It was almost like reintroducing our relationship. And then it came to the point Yah right, cause I had so much stuff going where, like I don’t want to leave. And then on inside of me, and by the time all that we started to talk about, ok should you move started evolving with Mike wanting me to do this or that, I had lost complete touch with myself. That’s where it goes back to I needed to do things for me and not because I want to go back to provide a framework. of what they saw me as or they wanted me school. I think the entire school knew that Lisa was just crazy about me. So I got cho- sen, so part of the thrill is the hunt, I didn’t So because of some these changes you have get to hunt. I always knew that in the back told me about, you started to think more of my head. It felt really wonderful that our lives together I kind of had that in the Yah, things were getting better and we were back of my head. When we split this past needed to happen for both of us and that identities, and it just evolved into where we kept me with that 5% of hope that I previ- are at this point. We spent all summer apart, And I knew I was going to be ok, I knew in my heart Lisa would be ok, even though she But seeing each other a couple of times a didn’t know that or feel that. I really knew that. Then towards the end of the summer I’m going, now what are we doing here. I wanted to say no one time, that you can’t Yah, two or three times a week and towards stay here. And it was a big deal for the first the end of the summer we would spend the time. It allowed me to feel that I had a say in this process. For me that was a major step in It first started like on the week-end, like I’d It was getting to the point that we were see- progressed he’d come to watch me dance on ing each other every Friday and Saturday and going out. So he said what if I don’t want to see you tonight and I want to go out Yah I really reinvested in her activities. I felt so lucky to be able to do that again, like I didn’t want to miss a thing.  2004 Zone of Excellence - http://www.zoneofexcellence.com Her genuiness gave me a tremendous sense Oh yah he was driving me crazy, this and I think it goes back to just both of us making changes along the way and not staying rigid, again, but we were not consuming the other What sorts of things were creating that? I think it was the original things coming up in different ways. I can’t remember to tell you the truth, but I just remember it re- gressing back to some of the frustrations that the decision. I either had to get my own place or are we ready for me moving back in. We had already been talking about me Because I guess old patterns are hard to moving to the beach or him moving back in. break, and you are kind of doing the same We decided, I think we are ready, we are things, like I don’t want to talk about a getting along. I still want to go to counseling house, I am not ready to get a house, that and we are still going to counseling. So let’s try it out. Let’s go back, live together. There was definitely anxiety with that, just because we want to get a house and we want to do I guess it was the stress of dealing with the this and that, and our counselor was good to day-to-day things. I think what was really say, ‘ok just slow it down, you don’t have to important in getting through this was that we think about that, just reintroduce everything slowly. And it has just been a process of being aware of the other person’s feelings We didn’t get stuck in one right way. We and respecting the other person and still do- also had very strong role models which I ing your stuff, still living life separate but think was important in this process too. My One thing I think is important to log here. When we moved back in together, it got bad again, not really bad, but we regressed in some ways and that was I think a critical Oh yah, thank you. 33 years and her parents have been married 33 years and both of our counseling after we moved back, it was like grand parents have been married their whole lives as well, so we had role models but I don’t think we are like any one of them. We  2004 Zone of Excellence - http://www.zoneofexcellence.com all my heart, trust that Lisa and I are in love Later today, you and your family and close today, and I DO have 100% faith in our re- friends are going to the chapel to renew your lationship as a loving union. Things are really good. I feel really connected to Lisa. I married you 8 years ago. How did that come feel very comfortable in my skin around her. I feel like I can become further who I want to become. And I think we’ve got a great chance at it. We are going to say ‘till death I think it is more for us. Like I wanted it to do we part’ and I am fully 100% committed be very small and now it is bigger. But I to that. But I don’t want to put the pressure think we made a decision to come back to- in the same way that we had to deal with be- fore. It’s like I accept Lisa for who she is and I believe in those statements we are go- ing to make tonight, I am awake when I say them this time, I am really fully awake when I think that is what people lack when they get married, they kind of just look at, oh, I When we first got married it was like a prom am getting married, it’s the knight in shin- school sweetheart, this is great, just get me know. I think the work has to come from the to the church. But this time around it is like, individual first to then be able to really work yah, for better for worse, for richer, for on a marriage, and people don’t. And when we stand up there we don’t know what it think a lot of couples don’t think about that. husband has (a life-threatening illness) and her statement is, I didn’t sign up for this. So how have things been going in the last Obviously she’s got work to do on herself. I guess some things we can’t really know until we are into them. But the experiences You know, they’re good. It is not perfect. It would be silly to say with 100% certainty as a result of them, makes your chances of that when we renew our vows tonight that we will absolutely stay together for the rest of our lives. This may sound like I’m not sure if things will work out, but that is not the case. The reality is that I’m more aware You know I can’t even fathom a situation in of the fallacy of permanence. There is so my life, in my relationship with Lisa, a much within this relationship that I don’t situation that would cause divorce. I just have control over, it’s scary, but I do, with can’t picture one if we work through this,  2004 Zone of Excellence - http://www.zoneofexcellence.com which was major, a huge deal. I can’t imag- some obstacles and say, I’m out of here. It’s ine one that we couldn’t negotiate because too hard, too much energy and want to start the core elements of us respecting each other fresh. I am not sure that starting fresh is any and trusting and being really genuine, we better (unless it is really abusive) because can kind of put in our back pack and take you don’t know what you are getting really. with us everywhere we go, in every situa- That was big for us. We didn’t believe in same stuff to the relationship and that in- each other so that if things are getting a little vestment I wanted to reinvest with Lisa. bit off track, you can kind of talk about it, Cause I think being single at least on my end We are still going to counseling and it’s was not what I wanted. I didn’t want to go wonderful. Like that hour together just to- and do that whole thing. There was just no tally focused on the relationship has been So it wasn’t about that, it was about finding It’s interesting because probably most peo- ourselves. And for the record we don’t think ple never make time for that. When are you going to make time for an hour to talk solely about your lives, and your connectedness or think they are great things, it’s just what We missed a counseling appointment about other people where everything is falling 2 weeks ago. And we said to each other why apart on a regular basis and they are not ca- don’t we do it ourselves. We met earlier in pable of doing anything about it, and make comparisons, then it becomes exceptional. In relationships that probably has to come This is also the first time that somebody has We didn’t get into anything heavy but it was taken an interest in my process in anything. just making time for each other, knowing Like I have never been interviewed, other than things I have done with work, but not my personal process. So this was quite an I am honored to have been able to hear your story. I think it’s great. Both of you should congratulate yourselves on doing something I was kind of reluctant to ask you and Lisa that so few people do. They usually face to do the interview. I was thinking, what is  2004 Zone of Excellence - http://www.zoneofexcellence.com Lisa going to say when you ask her about I am happy that you both agreed to sit down doing this interview. Here is this guy who and share some of your journey with me. I she doesn’t even know asking her to share am sure you are both going to end up doing some pretty intimate things. I didn’t want to create any anxiety and that’s why I kept Sometimes it just takes a while for doors to saying to you, make sure she is ok with it, open. But if you are ready, when the door  2004 Zone of Excellence - http://www.zoneofexcellence.com

Source: http://www.zoneofexcellence.ca/free/excellence/12_Impossible_Possible.pdf

Doi:10.1016/j.jcrs.2007.12.040

Changes in posterior corneal elevation after laserDiego Vicente, Thomas E. Clinch, MD, Paul C. Kang, MDPURPOSE: To evaluate changes in posterior corneal elevation using the Pentacam topographer(Oculus) in patients having laser in situ keratomileusis (LASIK) enhancement. SETTING: Private practice, Chevy Chase, Maryland, USA. METHODS: The Pentacam device was used to evaluate the changes in poste

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